Thursday, September 20, 2007

Why I believe Islam is NOT the religion of peace....

This posting is a follow up to a debate with Fafnir's Hangnail over the issue of religious satire and the effect of offending religious groups. As stated previously in my debate with him, what is really the issue here is freedom of expression versus censorship and the defense of our way of life as American citizens and the western culture in general.

My references to the Koran..or Qu'ran are from:

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance

Anyone who really believes that the religion of Islam is no worse than Christianity or Judaism needs to pick up a Koran and do a little reading.
I have issued this challenge before and i will do so again. If ANYONE can find any passages, verses or books in either the Bible or the Torah...I will concede this point, until then I stand by what I say.
Islam is only peaceful when the world becomes Islam.
Don't spin this wrong either. This is not about people brought up as Muslims that pay it lip service like so many so-called "Christians" or "Jews". This is about the religion itself. There are alot of good people that live in Muslim countries and alot of good "Muslims" as well. This is not meant to be a reflection on ordinary folks...this is a commentary and a criticism of the fundamental beliefs of the Islamic Faith.

I am going to post some of the verses from the Koran below and the reference for your perusal.

Administrating by the Non-Muslims

Al-anfal n.8 v.73-75

[73] The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.
[74] Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid, these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.
[75] And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company, they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.

An-Nissa 4 v. 95,96

95] Not equal are those Believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) hath Allah promised good: but those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.
[96] Ranks specially bestowed by Him and Forgiveness and Mercy, for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

An-Nissa 4 v. 100,101

[100] He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth many a refuge, wide and spacious: should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, his reward becomes due and sure with Allah: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[101] When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers may attack you: for the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

An-Nissa n.4 v. 141,142

141] (These are) the ones who wait and watch about you: if ye do gain a victory from Allah, they say: "Were we not with you?" But if the Unbelievers gain a success, they say (to them): "Did we not gain an advantage over you, and did we not guard you from the Believers?" But Allah will judge betwixt you on the Day of Judgment. And never will Allah grant to the Unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the Believers.
[142] The Hypocrites, they think they are over-reaching Allah but He will over-reach them: when they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen of men, but little do they hold Allah in remembrance;

An-Nissa n.4 v. 144-146

144] O ye who believe! take not for friends Unbelievers rather than Believers: do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
[145] The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire; no helper wilt thou find for them.
[146] Except for those who repent, mend (their life), hold fast to Allah, and purify their religion as in Allah's sight; if so they will be (numbered) with the Believers. And soon will Allah grant to the Believers a reward of immense value.

On the Jihad....

Al- Anfal 8 v. 60-62

[60] Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
[61] But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things).
[62] Should they intend to deceive thee, verily Allah sufficeth thee: He it is that hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers;

At-Touba 9 v. 41

[41] Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the Cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.

Al-Hajj 22 v. 58-60
[58] Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die, on them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: truly Allah is He Who bestows the best Provision.
[59] Verily He will admit them to a place with which they shall be well pleased: for Allah is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.
[60] That (is so). And if one has retaliated to no greater extent than the injury he received, and is again set upon inordinately, Allah will help him: for Allah is One that blots out (sins) and forgives (again and again).

Al I Imran 3 v. 142

[142] Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast?
[143] Ye did indeed wish for Death before ye met Him: now ye have seen Him with your own eyes, (and ye flinch!)
[144] Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude.

Concerning the "molesting" of the prophet (Mohammed)

At-touba 9 v. 12-14

[12] But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith, fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.
[13] Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
[14] Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
At-touba 9 v. 60-61
[60] Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to the truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
[61] Among them are men who molest the Prophet and say, "He is (all) ear." Say, "He listens to what is best for you: he believes in Allah, has faith in the Believers and is a Mercy to those of you who believe." But those who molest the Prophet will have a grievous penalty

And...from the Hadith. This is from the prophet Mohammed and not the essentially the words of the prophet not Allah.

From the Hadith

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Allah has undertaken to look after the affairs of one who goes out to fight in His way believing in Him and affirming the truth of His Messengers. He is committed to His care that He will either admit him to Paradise or bring him back to his home from where he set out with a reward or (his share of) booty. By the Being in Whose Hand is the life of Muhammad, if a person gets wounded in the way of Allah, he will come on the Day of Judgment with his wound in the same condition as it was when it was first inflicted; its color being the color of blood but its smell will be the smell of musk. By the Being in Whose Hand is Muhammad's life, if it were not to be too hard upon the Muslims, I would not lag behind any expedition which is going to fight in the cause of Allah. But I do not have abundant means to provide them (the Mujahids) with riding beasts, nor have they (i.e. all of them) abundant means (to provide themselves with all the means of Jihad) so that they could be left behind. By the Being in Whose Hand is Muhammad's life, I love to fight in the way of Allah and be killed, to fight and again be killed and to fight again and be killed.
Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 3484

So. I am going to leave it up to you to make your own decision. It seems pretty straightforward to me...but maybe I'm way offbase here. It seems a divine mandate to make the world submit to Allah...(Read: become Muslim) or face the Army of Allah...or the Mujahideen. And...until the world is Islam, that is what they will endeavor to do..with and by whatever means necessary.

Yes, Atrocities have been committed in the name of religion for thousands of years. But Christianity has risen above it. The Jews have been persecuted for their entire existence and don't really care about converting anyone at the end of a gunbarrel or the tip of a spear/sword/knife. It is the followers of Islam that are MANDATED, in their Holy book of wisdom to do so. Refute it if you wish. But please do us all a favor and back up your opinion with facts, otherwise it won't be taken seriously and won't even pass the moderation phase.

So this post was a result of a debate about the "Modoggie" illustrations done by the Artist Lars Vilks. The ire from Fafnir's Hangnail surrounded my apparent glee at maybe doing my own illustrations of "Modaggies". The point being that it was interpreted that I was considering this "because I could". And that I was simply being and asshole "because I could".
Fafnir actually was only trying to make me think harder about what I was proposing and was playing "devil's advocate" (Pun intended). Exactly the sort of discourse and debate I encourage.

But, for the record, why shouldn't "because I can" be a good enough reason. If I feel strongly enough about it or even if i don't, it is my right as a US citizen to draw a picture of whatever i want and to also say whatever I want. I am not so shallow as to draw an offensive picture just because I can however. If I do draw some Modoggie cartoons, and post them it will be because I am flipping the proverbial "bird" at the religious authority of Islam...and yes, there most certainly is one. In fact there are several Muslim countries whose Authority is more like tyranny and the average working family must live by a ridiculously outdated standard of living. I for one will not stand by and watch them infiltrate our culture and twist us into an Islamic society by being complacent or totally disregarding situational awareness until it's too late. they can commit horrible atrocities and crimes against humanity and that's ok cause "Allah mandates it be so" yet an artist can't draw a cartoon satirizing the Prophet? I cannot and will not submit. PERIOD. And if that makes me an Asshole, well then By GOD I'll be one. And yes, I am happy to call myself the INFIDEL THEY LOVE TO HATE!

I am an American.
I am also a former soldier and I made an oath to support and defend our constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

I take my oath extremely seriously.

For one, I am not Iroquois.
Nor am I Irish.
Nor am I Scottish.
Nor am I Welsh.
Nor am I Swiss.
Nor am I French.
Nor am I German.

I am all of these things but most of all...

I am an American.

To be an American does not constitute being White, Black, Red, yellow or Purple.
To be an American is to embrace a way of life that upholds the rights and freedoms of all people who wish to live free.
To live under the tyrannical yoke of a theocracy or a dictatorship is not freedom.
And I will not abide by that for any reason.

I have chosen to make a stand against ANY threat to my country and my way of life. The most important document to me is the Constitution. Period.

Look to your religious texts for wisdom...

I do on occasion as well, but I look to the Constitution of the United States for my my guidebook on the right way to live. FREE. Period.

God Bless the USA and our soldiers, Marines, Sailors and Airmen who sacrifice so much to defend her.
On that, I will end this post. Feel free to comment. I look forward to seeing what you all have to say about that.


Fafnir's Hangnail said...

Of non-believers�
Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Pretty standard stuff. Oh, and since we are talking about conversion, the Quran isn�t exactly in favor of it:

Surah 2:256 states, "There is no compulsion in religion, truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error, therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."

Sounds a lot like the bible there.

But lets see what else the bible has to offer. Lets look at Slavery for a moment...

�Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward" (1 Peter 2:18). "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5).

�A servant will not be corrected by words: for though he understand he will not answer� (Proverbs 29:19).

�And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye�s sake. And if he smite out his manservant�s tooth, or his maidservant�s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth�s sake� (Exodus 21:26-27).

"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids� (Leviticus 25:44).

�Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever" (Leviticus 25:44-46).

�If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master�s, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever� (Exodus 21:2-6).

�And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money� (Exodus 21:20-21).

�Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things� (Titus 2:9-10).

�And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee� (Deuteronomy 20:13-14).

Yep, definitely the religion of brotherly love. It is OK to have slaves, beat them, and keep the whole generations of slaves. Especially if they are heathens or the spoils of war.

Hmm, speaking of Jihad, what does the Bible say about holy war��.

2 Samuel 12:10 � ��Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.��

Exodus 17:14-16 � �Then the Lord said to Moses, �Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.�15 And Moses built an altar and called its name, The-Lord-Is-My-Banner;16 for he said, �Because the Lord has sworn: the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.�

Genesis 15:1-6 � �After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, �Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.�2 But Abram said, �Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?�3 Then Abram said, �Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!�4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, �This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.�5 Then He brought him outside and said, �Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.� And He said to him, �So shall your descendants be.�6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.�

So it is ok to fight for God, AND we will be rewarded for it. Where have I heard THAT party line before? Hell, David even believed he was TRAINED by God for war�

Psalm 18:34 � �He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.�

Psalm 144:1 � �Blessed be the Lord my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle�

My point here is that EVERY religion can be taken out of context and used for personal agenda. Islam is just as much the religion of peace as is Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jedi, or Pastafarian, etc.

As far as Christian rising above their past�well I don�t think they have. There are still atrocities being committed every day by Christians around the world. Look at the Lord�s Resistance Army in Africa as an example. And I still don�t think that they have atoned for the obliteration of countless American (North Central and South) Indian tribes. Witch trials were a common occurrence less than 100 years ago - and we call Muslims barbaric? As far as history goes, the Muslim world is between 400-600 years behind Christianity. What were we doing 500 years ago? Raping and pillaging the New World at the tip of spear and sword. How different are Muslims from what we were then? Not very.

Because you can. Why is this a good argument? Let�s just go back to the big kid ruling the schoolyard. I�m gonna take your ball and lunch money. Because I can. I�m gonna call your mother a slut and your sister a whore. Because I can. I�m gonna draw pictures of your dad sucking cock all over the place. Because I can. Yep, that is right. Because I can. GREAT philosophical argument there buddy. Yep, being an American certainly gives you the right to crap all over the rest of the world�s beliefs. Because you can! And Americans wonder why the rest of the world sees the US as a bunch of idiotic, redneck cowbows.

And who is this Islamic Religious Authority you keep talking about? There is not an over-arching religious authority. Period. Most Islamic Countries have some sort of police force that enforce their laws. So do we. And all of ours are based on the Christian Bible. In some states the police are downright fanatical. Even in some western countries they are over the top. There are plenty of examples of criminally outdated and archaic laws on OUR books. The police there harass women whose burkas are not long enough. No different from when Victorian women couldn�t show ankles. I could keep going here but I think you are intelligent enough to get my point with just that one example.

I�m not asking you to allow these people to infiltrate our society. The Liberals are already doing that to us with their Political Correctness and touchy feely welfare state. I just don�t feel that you are contributing positively to the issue. You are fanning the flames of fanaticism. That helps no one. Go run for a political office and try to do something on a global scale.

Mjolnir said...

I am responding to your comment fafnir and although I have targeted selected statements, I felt these were the major points of contention. I am not attempting to edit or misquote you or take anything out of context.
That being said....

Because you can. Why is this a good argument?

I think you're missing my point Fafnir…The right to freedom of expression and free speech is fundamental. They can disagree with me all they want and they can burn pictures of my drawings or writings,etc and that's ok too.
And as I said, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Let's just go back to the big kid ruling the schoolyard. I'm gonna take your ball and lunch money. Because I can.

Except that that is apples and oranges here…

I'm gonna call your mother a slut and your sister a whore. Because I can.
Yep, and they're just names…of course we generally consider those fighting words…but not killing words.

I'm gonna draw pictures of your dad sucking cock all over the place. Because I can. Yep, that is right. Because I can.

Yep, and you can do the same to me or you can report me as being offensive, whatever.

GREAT philosophical argument there buddy. Yep, being an American certainly gives you the right to crap all over the rest of the world's beliefs.
Because you can!
And who is this Islamic Religious Authority you keep talking about? There is not an over-arching religious authority. Period.

There's nothing philosophical about it and It's not even an argument…spare me the theatrics and the obvious condescension here. The fact is we are at war idealogically, whether any of us likes it or not and no matter how many times you try to tell me that there is no religious authority in Islam…I don't buy it…sure they don't have a pope…but the vast majority of the imams and mullahs do not condemn radical Islam and in many cases actually support them. And yes THEY ARE THE RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. PERIOD.
Just because a Mosque doesn't belong to a designated terrorist group, making them radicals, does not mean that they don't support them even if it's silently.
I don't buy that whole…moderate muslim crap. Sorry, I've seen the hypocrisy and so I have the right form an opinion. And just because the ME is getting the most attention, does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world is much better…if you dig around you'll find the headlines in foreign papers…some are even trabslated so us ignorant Americans can read them. Southeast Asia where the greatest population of Muslims are has their radical militant groups as well…the Phillipines has for years and Africa? Let's not even go there.
And yes there is plenty of hypocrisy in pretty much every religion and yes…as I have stated before just about every religion and surely every nation has a seriously flawed past and atrocities have been committed. And yes sometimes we get these radical wackjobs as well…but not on this scale (anymore anyway) anywhere but Islam. So you can make all the historical comparisons you like but it really doesn't pass the bullshit test when you're dealing with modern times. Every reference you've made is to history…one that my grandparents never even saw let alone myself.
I know where you're coming from and on some levels I will agree with you. But I remain firm in my position that calling for the death of an artist or writer because he's offended your religion is ridiculously puerile. Smacks of insecurity to me, but who am I to judge right? Exactly…and who are they to judge? This was not done in a muslim country or an arab nation or a Persian one either for that matter. Why should Lars Vilks have to hide and have a security detail to protect him and all because he made a drawing that offended someone.
The point is…if our society allows them to bully us with these sorts of tactics, then we are exactly what their Koran tells them we are…no better than cattle…we are property. Sorry not this ignorant idiotic redneck.
And I think you know I don't really consider myself that. I simply refuse to roll over and submit. PERIOD.
NOW do you understand? And quite frankly, you are probably right, my little corner of the blogosphere may "fan the flames of fanaticism"…but I doubt it. I highly doubt I could post an offensive picture that anyone but you and a handful of others will ever even see.
I know you know my point and understand where I am coming from, and I understand what you've been saying to me, I will never accept you insistence of there being no religious authority in Islam. It may be a fractious authority, but it is there. No, No Pope…Islam is not Catholicism. Different type of heierarchy but there is still an authority. And I refuse to argue about it anymore.